This is a great question from Dirk in Oklahoma…
Shannon,
First, thanks for all the information you so freely pass along to your readers. I have read/ watched your use of jointer planes. I have a Stanely #7 and when I use it to joint an edge the edge rarely comes out square to the board face, it usually cut at a tilt even if I focus on keeping the plane level and square to the board face. Do I need to grind a curve on my iron? Thanks for you time and advice.
Dirk
Here is what I had to say on the topic. A bit verbose but I think I covered it.
Dirk,
This is a good question and an issue that I deal with a lot too. I think a lot of people will benefit from this so I am going to put up a blog on it and probably do a quick audioboo on the topic too.
No matter how hard we try inevitably the board will tilt because we tend to favor a hand unless you are truly ambidextrous. The easy answer is you need to check your board often with a square and assess from there to determine where you need to be putting pressure on the board. Putting a camber in your blade is a great way to level an edge quickly because you don’t worry about where you are putting your weight or tilting the plane. The curve will naturally take a heavier shaving from the middle of the blade so align the middle of the blade where you need to take the most wood off. I do recommend this on your jointer plane but don’t get carried away with the camber. It only needs to be slight. If you have a plane with a heavier camber like a scrub or fore plane you can quickly level the edge and then hit it with your jointer too.
I am a firm believer in learning to do things multiple ways so you have another trick up your sleeve. What if you are squaring an edge on a shorter board and it doesn’t make sense to use a long jointer? You may not want a camber on all your blades or may not want to deal with the extra sharpening effort involved so you should know how to square an edge without the camber technique. Do not tilt the plane ever, you will never get it right on and the chance of changing the angle mid way through the stroke is very high. Place the plane flat on the edge and lean your weight towards the high side. You will actually see that the plane is taking a heavier shaving on that side. This is what I learned at Chuck Bender’s shop and it works great and there is no need to camber your blade. It is very subtle and I’ll give you an example. I am left handed so I push with my left hand on the tote. I will set my plane on the board with right hand on the knob and ready to plane. If the high side of my board is to the left I will take my left hand and slightly twist it to the left throughout the stroke. This is all that is needed to take that heavier shaving and level the board.
I would advise practicing this and you will be amazed at how quickly and accurately you can bring an edge square and there is no balancing act or need to move the plane side to side. This has become my technique of choice now and I actually sharpen by jointer straight across now. The only planes I have with camber are my scrub and fore planes for rough work and a smoother. Although the smoother is so slight that you could just say that I broke the corners to prevent plane tracks.
What are your thoughts? Any other techniques that work out there?
11 responses so far ↓
1 Stew Latham // Aug 19, 2009 at 10:30 pm
Shannon,
Two other useful techniques come to mind:
1) Using a fence attached to the side of the plane (I believe Veritas make a fence for jointing)
2) Planing both edges that are to be joined at the same time, by putting the faces of adjacent boards together – in a concertina sort of way.
2 Shannon // Aug 19, 2009 at 11:13 pm
Excellent points Stew. I have been wanting to try the jointer fence to see how it works for some time. I’ll give that a whirl at the Hand Tool conference in Valley Forge in a few months. Absolutely on the complimentary angle technique. This is about as old school as it gets when edge joining two boards.
3 Bob Rozaieski // Aug 20, 2009 at 7:24 am
Excellent explanation Shannon!
FWIW, I use 2 planes when edge jointing. First is what I call a try plane. It’s similar in size to a #7 and is sharpened with a camber. I use it to square edges using the technique you described, and also to try board faces after using my fore plane. The second plane I use for edge jointing is my jointer plane. It is 30″ long and sharpened straight across (i.e. no camber) just like any other joinery plane (e.g. rabbet, dado or match planes). The purpose of the jointer is to create a joint, in this case an edge joint, so I like the iron straight. It just takes one or two passes with the jointer after using the try plane to have a glue up ready edge. I also use the jointer for match planing as described by Stew. I don’t like cambered irons for match planing as I feel the difference in shaving thickness between the sides and center of a cambered iron actually makes match planing harder to perform properly.
I will add one comment though. One thing I like to ask myself when working these days since I work only with hand tools is “Do I need to do this?” In Dirk’s case, “Do I need a perfectly square edge?” If the answer is yes (like in cases where another surface needs to join squarely to the one in question such as a typical M&T joint), then I get to making it square. But I often find that the answer is no, I really don’t (e.g. an edge joint that can be match planed). Don’t get me wrong, learning to plane an edge perfectly square to a face is a basic necessary skill that I think everyone should be able to do as it is often required to do so (e.g. rails & stiles for a frame). However, taking unnecessary tasks out of the equation helps to speed up the process of doing hand work.
One example I always like to give regarding planing edges square is a table edge. Its a common question, how to crosscut or plane table top edges or ends perfectly square. However, if you think about it, you really don’t need to. Most of the time, a table top edge is decorated with a molded edge and no one is going to put a square on your corners. So in cases like this, I get it close enough and then don’t worry about it. No one knows the difference.
Sorry for the rambling and for sticking my nose into your topic. It’s been a slow morning so far, lol.
4 Shannon // Aug 20, 2009 at 8:25 am
Bob,
Great points and thank you for “sticking your nose in” This is exactly the conversation I was hoping to inspire with this post. That’s what blogs are for right. I hope you will go into some detail on your Try plane technique in your podcast because I am intrigued. I have a fore and jointer and it sounds like the try is in between.
Secondly, your point on “do I need to do this” is outstanding. I have started to work that way myself and I love the freedom of leaving an edge less than perfect because no one will see it or squareness if not paramount. Something we should all consider.
5 Bob Rozaieski // Aug 20, 2009 at 9:32 am
Thanks Shannon,
Really, in my opinion, there is no difference between a try plane and a jointer except how it is set up for use. Length is important for both (longer is better IMO) but both can be the same length.
To me, the real difference between the two is how they are set up and used. I use the try plane for truing (also referred to as trying in centuries past) surfaces. Think “try” square and you can see where the term “try” plane comes from. The point of the try plane is to make surfaces, be they faces or edges, flat, straight and true (square). For this reason, I camber the iron so as not to leave tracks on wide board faces when trying the face. Less camber than a fore plane but more than a smoother.
On the other hand, I consider the jointer plane a joinery plane like a dado, rabbet, moving fillester or plow. It may be the same length as the try plane, however, I sharpen the iron straight across. I never use my jointer plane on board faces. It’s a joinery plane, intended for making edge joints. With the straight edge on the iron, it excells at quickly match planing two boards to make a wider panel, or simply planing a flat, straight edge on a squared up board edge (squared with the try plane) to make an edge joint. My jointer sees much less use than my try plane but when I need it it excells at its job.
While I’m not typically an advocate of the versatility of a single plane with multiple irons, this is one case where the same plane can do both jobs equally well with a simple switch of the iron. I’d use a cambered iron for trying work and a straight iron for jointing work.
6 Rob // Aug 20, 2009 at 9:46 am
Shannon,
When squaring an edge, it is very beneficial to place the thumb on top of the front knob, curl your fingertips under the sole, and make a ‘fence’ w/ your nails or knuckles. If your hands are small, placing the thumb on the ‘bridge’ of the plane just ahead of the mouth will work as well.
I strongly agree w/ Bob that there is a difference between a try plane and a jointer plane. If you look at Clark & Williams’ site, you’ll see their try planes are about the size of a #7, and their jointers are ~30″ long. Apart from length, they are set up just as Bob said- trys have a camber, jointers don’t. IMHO, it would be worth having both, but since real world finances dictate tool purchases, having 2 irons for a #7 or #8 will work just fine- one cambered ~.006″ for trying, the other dead straight for jointing.
Keep up the great blog/boos!
7 Rob // Aug 20, 2009 at 9:48 am
Also, don’t forget about shooting boards. Placing a known square side down in the shoot, and planing a staight edge just like you would end grain.
8 Shannon // Aug 20, 2009 at 11:06 am
Bob and Rob, what I like about your thoughts on Try planes is I have another reason to buy a another plane!
9 Larry Marshall // Aug 20, 2009 at 12:30 pm
I agree with what Bob and Rob have said and have a #5 and #6 plane set up with camber. My #7 does not have camber in the blade.
But, as I said to Shannon in a tweet, the original question asked about “grinding” a camber into their jointer blade. The camber in a jointer argument aside, I think that most camber discussions get lost in translation as many believe that adding camber means rounding the blade as a scrub plane, literally grinding a curve in its edge rather than putting a VERY SHALLOW camber in it via stones.
I know that Shannon, Bob and Rob all know this but I wonder if the person asking the original question understands what “slight camber” (from Shannon’s answer) really means?
Cheers — Larry
10 Bob Rozaieski // Aug 20, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Great point Larry. I actually do grind the camber into my fore plane and my try plane. You can see the camber in the irons from both of these planes without putting any kind of straight edge to the iron. My smoothers are cambered just by applying extra honing strokes to the outer corners of the iron. I don’t grind the camber into the smoothers. If I had to quantitate the camber in the three types of planes that I add it to (fore, try and smoothers) I would say that for the fore plane, it’s about a 10″ radius and for the try plane is about a 20″ radius. The smoothers are such a shallow sweep I’m not sure I could quantitate it. If I put a straight edge to the edge of my smooth plane iron and hold it up to a light, I can just barely see light under the straight edge at the corners of the iron. Other than that, it almost looks like the iron is straight across and in fact when I need to regrind my smoothers I do grind them straight across and then add the camber with localized pressure when honing on the stones.
11 Larry Marshall // Aug 20, 2009 at 1:55 pm
THanks, Bob, for pointing out the weakness of my msg. I was thinking of the “jointer camber or no” dichotomy, not the other side of this discussion which includes try planes. Most of the time my #5 is taking very thick shavings and the camber required is directly proportional to shaving thickness and thus if you’re taking 1/32″ thick shavings, you need a lot more than if you’re taking .001″.
But if you read Charlesworth, he argues that you MUST have camber in a jointer plane for it to function properly. But, camber to him is provided by leaning on the sides of the blade while you hone it.
I’m surprised, though, that you use so much camber in your fore and try planes. I’d guesss mine have have that much curvature. Different strokes (no pun intended) and I guess this at least suggests that there’s more than one way to do this stuff.
This is a great discussion.
Cheers — Larry
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